Peace! Peace! But there is no peace - A conversation

This is written by a man named T S*, a former Muslim PLO Sniper who fought for Yasser Arafat following the '67 War. He was born in Gaza and this is what he writes about the war, on the website onceanarafatman.com
"Now, onto the current war in the Gaza strip...it is so amazing to me how many people suddenly become experts about the Middle East. I am not, by any means, an expert. War, any way you look at it, is an ugly thing. One thing I must say, the world is becoming so "anti-Israel" because of the lack of understanding of the real conflict. Let me say this, the real conflict is spiritual and not political. If Hamas could get their hands on the same capabilities the Israelis have, they would have erased Israel off the map a long time ago. The casualties of war that we see is horrified and expanded by AlJazeera and the like because of their being so "biased". Don't take everything they show you as truth. Their goal is to win sympathy for people like Hamas.I feel horrified by the loss of innocent life in Gaza. Yes it is ugly, it is mean, it is vicious, but Hamas is the one to blame for all of this. They put their people in the line of fire and they hide underground. Karen and I have been there. We lived there. We have seen what Hamas is capable of and what they do when they fight with Israel. They are not as brave as what AlJazeera wants us to believe. They are ugly, mean spirited evil people and many are demonically possessed.Let us pray for the victims on both sides of this war. Pray that God will bring Hamas down to save their own people from their evil government."-T A S

E-There's no way you can justify killing of innocent life… war is always an ugly, horrible thing. What also can't be justified, though, is the undeniable fact that Hamas is intentionally sacrificing its own women and children, basing their operations from schools and from civilian homes to maximize collateral damage and to garner the world's sympathy. By having the men 'warriors' or 'soldiers' cowering behind a human shield of women and children, or worse, hiding out safe in Damascus like the leaders of Hamas are doing now, they are going against all moral rules of warfare and giving Israel no choice if they want to save their people from being pounded by rockets as they have been for the last 7/8 years. It's a catch-22 situation, and it's escalated into a madness, yes, but we need to look at more than the numbers and see why so many innocents are being killed.

S - this is not a classic warfare because the palestinians do not have a state and consequently no legitimized army. I do not support Hamas' actions and use of force. But since the disengagement from Gaza the palestinian in Gaza have been under siege. {my note: this is only after they themselves have started an assault against israel – they have always been the first to break a ceasefire agreement} Control of export, import, basic resources. Sadly enough resistence without violence does not seem to work in a sum-zero conflict. Israel has a right to defend its citizens, but as a state it also recognizes its duty to reducing innocent casualties. yet it did not succeed in that.

A - What would you do if you were the Prime Minister of Israel about Hamas was shooting rockets into to Israel?

S - Habibi, i am not the prime minister. It’s like me asking you what would you do if you were a gazan, would you join Hamas and shoot rockets or not?

A- That's easy, habibti. I would not join Hamas nor would I shoot rockets. The problem is that many people are criticizing Israel for her actions, but they offer no other solution.

S- You have a point there. I would say it's because neither side will talk to the other. Both sides don't trust each other and the international community is not mediating. It's hard to find a solution when neither of them wants to compromise. It's obvious that Israel is stronger militarily, and that is why the criticism is on Israel. With power comes responsibility, you know?

A - Ya, it's too bad Hamas didn't realize that before they murdered Fatah and took power. So, how do you deal with them? You talk? How do you talk to someone who doesn't recognize your right to exist and wants to wipe you off the face of the earth and drive you into the sea? How do the leaders of Israel protect their citizens to whom they are first and foremost responsible?

S - I could say the same about Israel's attitude towards Hamas. That's what I mean about no compromise on both sides

A - What could you say about Israel's attitude toward the Hamas? That Israel doesn't recognize their right to exist? They are an internationally recognized terrorist organization. I think they have terrorized the Palestians as much as they have the Israelis, especially if you take into account how many Fatah were killed in the Hamas take over. I once heard them say, before they took over Gaza, that the PLO was their main enemy, and attacking Israel was just a way to get at the PLO

S - I don't think bringing up the international norms in relation with Hamas is adequate. Internationally Israel was condemned for their attack on Gaza. {my note: but why? This seems to me entirely hypocritical, what western nation would allow terrorists to pound their land with missiles and then roll over and play nice?} There is a possibility they might be referred to as an equivalent to terrorists themselves with the way things are going. {Also, only because of the global communities complete lack of understanding in the stituation}In the 90s PLO i.e Fatah persecuted Hamas members as a way to rid of their opponents. This policy was created by Fatah themselves. Just because Israel doesn't like Hamas we are told of these inner conflict, and even raising sympathy with palestinians. However, Arafat did the same after Oslo but Israel didn't mention it because the served their interest. Because Hamas refused to abide to Israel's demands, they are unrecognized. In Israel we have inner conflicts and the claim that the government dafka chose to attack Gaza now is for political parties to gain more votes before the elections. So, they were using Gaza to get at their opponent political parties. How is that different?

A – S*, thank you for the info about the PLO's activity against Hamas. I was unware of this, but not surprised. However, there is quite a difference between the international community recognizing an organization as terrorist organization and condemning a country for actions they took in defending themselves. I am familiar with the claim that Olmert, Livni and Barak started the war for political gain (even though Olmert is on his way out and has already destroyed his party), but unless I am mistaken, grad rockets were falling in Ashkelon before Israel started bombing in Gaza. And I think this is the reason why Israel decided "enough is enough." Sadly, I think if the Hamas had only continued to fire kasam rockets on Sderot, Israel would have continued to wait. It was also Hamas who broke the previous cease fire that led to the way. Shadia, I have to admit, I am a bit surprised that you are defending Hamas.

S - I am not defending Hamas. I was trying to show you that they too have a rationality to their actions, whether we like it or not. I think Israel does have the right to defend itself as a sovereign state, but proportionality has to be taken into account. This brings another issue whether the means of the Isareli strategy have met the ends or no? If not, who is going to be held responsible? I am not siding either one because I do not want to. I want this situation to end, and not postponed. I think the only solution possible is one that will have to force both sides to compromise for the benefit of their people.

A - Hi S*, I have a hard time calling what lies behind their actions "rational," I think hate, might be more appropriate, but I understand what you're saying. As far as the proportional bit, I don't get that. I mean, what should Israel have done, every time they fire an unguided rocket on Israel, we fire an unguided rocket on Gaza. Taking into consideration the lack of population in the South and the population density in Gaza, they would probably hit nothing most of the time, and most of the time we would hit civilians. I heard a clip from Al-Jazeera English where they asked a British expert on international law about this and he gave an example of someone running at you with a knive on the street. He said, you don't have to wait til the person stabs you in the heart to defend yourself. Needless to say, I don't think he will be invited back to Al-Jazeera.

Now, your next question is very interesting, especially since some Israeli politicians are saying yes and some no. The problem with saying no, is that Hamas can use that to say that they won. Now, within the Western world that doesn't really matter, we know that nobody really wins in war, but in the Middle East, when Israel always feels like she has her back against the wall, or the sea, she has to have a deterent so that others will not attack her. Now, what I think, I'm not sure. I would have to say, not really. The israeli leaders did not make known any goals about the war, so that Hamas could not hold them to them and say, "You didn't do this, so we won." I think we would have to ask ourselves a couple of questions: 1) Is the south of Israel a safer place to live? For right now, yes, for the long run, probably not. So, there is a temporary victory. Is Hamas still in power? there's another good question, by aparently so, or partially. Not much victory there.
Even though I don't think getting Gilad Shalit back was ever part of the plan, the fact is that Hamas still holds him. So, no victory there either. Perhaps more importantly I believe Israel got back much of the deterent that seemed to be lost after the 2nd war with Lebanon. That may be more important than any of the other goals. Especially if it prevents possible wars in the future.
How do you see the two sides compromising?

S - That sounds like an even use of collective punishment. Palestinians who happen to live in Gaza became casualties, and Israelis who happen to live in the Negev became potential targets. i can see the similarity but i don't accept it because in the Palestinian side the misguided rocket caused more than a 1000 lives. I would be as upset if these casualties were on the Israeli side but they aren't. {my note: Again Israel is not placing their people purposefully in the way of danger as the Hamas do so of course the number of casualties witll be different}Israelis have the choice to temporarily move from the 'war zone' until safe again. Gazans couldn't, why? because Israel controls the borders. So, Israeli knew innocent people will die because it's not our own. This shows how Israeli perceive Palestinian lives, cheap and disposable. it's ok because it's a war, right? Al-jazeera is like any other network. They have specific audience and I am sure that guy won't come again either. I totally agree with you. Israel, in order to maintain the deterrent had to prove it’s might once again. They did that also knowing with what they were facing. Hamas is not like Hizballah. it's less dangerous and that is why the risks were lower. i see the two sides compromising only through external pressures and Economic growth. Both sides lost trust a long time ago and that should be restored first. How? if it worked in the 90s in the midst of suicide bombings and targeted assassinations, there is a possibility now. We need to broaden our options.

A - I was suggesting that as a supposed use of proportionate force, I personally don't believe in proportionate force. If Israel had the choice/ability to only kill militants, they would have done it. If Hamas had the choide/ability they would kill us all. I am very sorry that so many innocent palestinians died, but how do you expect Israel to "fight" Hamas when Hamas hides. Even when Israel tries to just kill the Hamas leaders, shooting their cars etc, innocent people usually get hurt. Don't forget that Israel killed more of her soldiers than did Hamas. I don't think Israel did that on purpose (although there is one case of Israel bombing a house where Hamas was holding a supposedly badly wounded Israeli soldier).